王力雄：独立也可以谈

王力雄：独立也可以谈

当媒体采访我为何要推动中国网民与达赖喇嘛的对话时，我回答因为统治者垄断的交流扭曲真相，达赖喇嘛说了多年不追求独立，几乎全世界都知道，当局却始终告诉中国民众达赖喇嘛要分裂中国，追求西藏独立。这的确是我推动对话的目的之一，达赖喇嘛也认为是重要的。他在年初进行的视频对话中回顾：“六四天安门事件发生之后有一年，我在美国哈佛大学与部分中国知识分子会面，详细介绍了我的中间道路立场。当时，与会的中国朋友几乎异口同声说，如果中国民众有机会了解你的真实想法，那么可以肯定，中国人民会支持达赖喇嘛。”

不过，我觉得这不应该是对话的全部目的。对话是交流，为的是了解对方的各种想法，而不是只了解其中一种想法，尤其不是仅为了解自己愿意接受的想法。如一些中国海外流亡人士，虽然标榜追求民主，在跟流亡藏人对话时却设定前提条件，要求藏人不得提独立，不得反对中国人等，首先已经不是民主。民主必须允许他人畅所欲言。邓小平对西藏说的“除了独立什么都可以谈”是专制权力的态度，而和流亡藏人处境一样的中国海外流亡者，自己也是有家不能回，若以为自己有高于藏人的权力，则是一种可笑的错位。

其次，当我们倾听对方的不同意见，不应该仅是耐着性子的表达姿态，而是要真心地听取对方，了解和自己不一样的观点，思考他们为什么会那样想，合理性在哪里。只有让人家畅快地说出来，自己认真地听进去，才能做到相互理解，最后找到共同点。所以，作为民间人士，汉人和藏人的对话中，应该什么都可以谈，包括独立也可以谈。

我相信达赖喇嘛的判断，当中国民众了解中间道路后，很多人会支持。但那还不等于问题就解决了，因为在达赖喇嘛之外，很多藏人是追求西藏独立的。同雍容大度、理性智慧的达赖喇嘛对话，无疑会有良好的气氛，然而当双方民间进行群体对话时，一定会遇到很多冲突的观点，言语和态度也不一定总是保持理性，如果缺乏开放的心态和努力理解对方的谦虚，很容易渐行渐远，那时对话的效果甚至可能比不对话还糟。

2011-2-2

（本文为RFA藏语节目，转载请注明。）

Independence Can Also Be Talked About

By Wang Lixiong

When I am asked in interviews by the media why I keep pushing for dialogues between the Dalai Lama and Chinese netizens, I cite the government's censorship and distorting the truth。For so many years the Dalai Lama has been repeatedly admitting that he doesn’t pursue independence, the entire world knows, but the administration still keeps telling people the Dalai Lama splits China and demands independence. This is one of the main factors making me strive for the dialogue which the Dalai Lama too considers very important. While having a video chat at the beginning of the year, he remembered, “One year after the June 4th incident, I met several Chinese intellectuals in Harward University and explained them about my Middle Way approach. All the Chinese attendants there said that Chinese people would surely support me if they have a chance to know my views."

However, I don’t think this is the entire objective of having dialogues. Dialogues are interactions whose purpose is to know each others’ different thoughts but not only one thought, especially not the acceptable one. Many Chinese in exile overseas too, though said to pursue democracy, but when they come in dialogues with Tibetan refugees, they set preconditions of not to talk about Tibetan independence and not to oppose the Chinese people etc, which are not democratic in the first place. Democracy permits people to express whatever opinions they have. What Deng Xiaoping said of Tibet "anything can be talked about except independence" is an authoritarian attitude. Bing in the same situation of not being able to go home like the Tibetan refugees, yet regarding ourselves superior to Tibetans is a laughable mistake.

Secondly, when we listen to others' opinions, we should not listen to them with patience but with sincerity, to know where their opinions are different from ours, analyze why they are different and to see if they are legitimate. People can understand each other and consensus can be reached only when everybody can speak out without hesitation and can listen with sincerity. So, being common people, during dialogues between Tibetans and Chinese, everything can be talked about, including independence.

I believe the Dalai Lama’s judgment that many Chinese people would support him when they come to understand his views. But that does not solve the problem as besides the Dalai Lama, there are so many Tibetans seeking Tibetan independence. The Dalai Lama being generous, liberal and rational would undoubtedly develop a better atmosphere for the dialogue. But group dialogues among the general public would encounter numerous conflicting views leading to chaos that results difficulty maintaining speech and attitudes rational. In the absence of open-mindedness and lacking spirit to understand other’s sincerity, dialogues could have the reverse effect of solving the problem and thus the effect of dialogue would possibly be worse than having no dialogues at all.

(由Ogyen翻译。）